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Of course expression of opinion is allowable, desirable even. There is no pattern. There is no "style" any more, just strong play and weak play, regardless of where it is played. I know they call them random number generators or something like that, but if Fibs and Gridgammon use different programs, will the dice appear in markedly different ways, or particular patterns? Never give up on the things that make you smile. I only asked if you had any evidence to support it.

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Would you be kind enough to tell me which bg software ever tells in its analyses of any "styles" of play? Does that then give Gridgammon players an advantage over Fibs when playing on Gridgammon, ggridgammon vica versa?

I will close this 'debate' now - from my side anyway. Shouts isn't quite as lively and their tournaments less interesting.

How can we be sure of this? A random number generator doesn't provide equidistribution of rolls over a timescale.

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Do you seriously imagine that Stick or Kaz or Mochy or Wells or any of the other mega stars that we see play on GG would play on a server with defective dice? But I was thinking about how dice generators actually work. The point I was trying poorly it would seem to make, wasn't that the dice were 'defective' or indeed 'unfair' - just, possibly, different. That's a fact of life, so don't take it to heart garp. Yes in that almost anything in bg comes hedged with "except when" and "almost always" and "on grixgammon whole".

Take the time to learn how to play.

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The less like the bots they play, the worse they play. I have registered and played a few games to try to get used to it. Backgammon analysis programs don't of course include an assessment of style, probably because it doesn't exist. They are good judges of fairness. There is no pattern. There is grirgammon style at the lower classes either, other than waiting for the doubles to come.

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I don't know any of the people you have mentioned, dorbel, so couldn't comment on what they would or wouldn't do. You seem to revolve all your arguments on the issue of world class or expert players dorbel while griidgammon the same time forgetting that these people are actually a minority.

Griegammon random generation means is that the chances of any number appearing on any roll are exactly 35 to 1 against. Dorbel made the point that the dice MUST be totally random on Gridgammon, not because they use the Mersenne Twister or any other mathematical theory - no!

If different random number generators provide equidistribution of rolls over differing timescales, then is it possible that the 'patterns' of, say, doubles, jokers etc etc will be different on different servers. I agree that it would appear random to any human, but, for instance, gridgammon may be prone to throwing up more consecutive doubles than Fibs or vica versa.

What is noticeable is that I play distinctly better on fibs, almost certainly because of stronger opposition on the Grid! If fibsters play there, they can expect to have a rating about points lower than their normal fibs rating. Ridiculous theories attract ridicule. Not particularly helpful, but thanks anyway. If that pattern of rolls is different in each system, does that make it easier to forecast, or develop a style of play if you play with a particular dice generator.

No recognisable style is evident on either, or indeed in the individuals that I have played more than once.

The four gridders I named are four of the best players in the world, the first three of which I thought would be instantly recognisable to anybody who played backgammon. We are all allowed to express our opinion in here, just like you dideven if that is based on our personal subjective observation aren't we? If this is because I am being obtuse, please tell me what I should be looking for! It is also ridiculous to suggest that their skill in the game makes them more likely to display 'fairness' than any other player or non-player.

I would add that, while I could expect ridicule from the likes of dorbel, I am dissappointed in Tom.